Do you feel sorry for Anthony Perkins?!

His talent was wasted after Psycho. The producers and audience refused to see him as anything but Norman Bates. Though he had so much to give.

His ending was tragic as well

Discuss

He was a limited bag of tricks. As he aged, his boyish nervousness was grating. He was a strange looking old guy. AIDS didn’t help.

Nonetheless he had a busy career after Psycho and was well-known internationally and appeared in a variety of film projects. The Trial, Mahogany, Murder on the Orient Express, Play It as It Lays, Pretty Poison, Catch-22, WUSA. Lovin' Molly, The Black Hole, Is Paris Burning? . . .

Love his work with Tuesday Weld.

I do feel sorry for him and all the other gays who could never live their true lives.

ABSOLUTELY NOT. He was a cunt of grade A magnitude. Anyone who knows what he did to Tab Hunter knows that fate was kind to him. He should have been killed slowly by Andrew Cunanan.

R5 WTF??? Your comment is beyond cruel.

R6 shut up you goody-goody, I know what I'm talking about. He WAS a psycho, anyone wil tell you that. Have you ever been within 15 ft of that freak ? I have , so shut up and lace your goody 2 shoes, oh, and if you're sickly-sweet R4, you F&F. Virtue signaling sanctimonious phony.

At least he will always be remembered for that one iconic role. Most of his other work is forgettable.

He comes across in those Roddy McDowell Malibu 1965 home movies as a cold and humorless creep. Really quite the contrast to all those other stars, many bigger names than his, who look like they're thoroughly enjoying themselves. letting their hair down and clowning or preening for the camera.

But perhaps he knew that Roddy's unerring camera eye would pick up truths that he didn't want revealed.

R9, yes, and also he was constantly playing mind games with everyone, very unpleasant, pretentious man, and a sexual freak of nightmare level. Silence of the lambs level

R5 What did he do to Tab Hunter??

R12 are you JOKING ? you...didn't read...LA CONFIDENTIAL THE MAKING OF A MOVIE STAR ????????

He seemed like the straight chasing or "I only fuck married guys who cheat on their wife" type.

He always gave me the creeps. The only movie he was ever good was Psycho.

Imagine if he had played Bobby in Company.

He turned in a wonderful performance in the movie Friendly Persuasion, playing Gary Cooper's son, who feels called upon to join the army during the Civil War. This was a totally different Tony Perkins, and Psycho was four years ahead in his future.

I only know him from the poirot movie. Did he receive hiv at the same time Freddy Mercury got it? Like wasn't hiv already known at that time, so why didn't he use condoms?

I met him on the set of one of the Psycho sequels. He was very friendly, but also a little wild and mischievous. I can imagine that he was a real handful when younger and more desirable.

A little. He didn't seem like he liked himself very much at times, while being a total narcissist at other times. He was more into himself than anyone he claimed to love, yet didn't love himself enough to live an authentic life. That is sad. I think he had a reasonable amount of success as an actor.

He stole the movie version of "Fear Strikes Out" from his boyfriend Tab Hunter, who had already done it on tv.

Perkins had a very good singing voice, and he starred in Frank Loesser's lovely (flop) "Greenwillow". He was also capable of being perfectly charming opposite Shirley MacLaine in the Shirley Booth-led film of "The Matchmaker".

He continued to do films and also stage work different from "Psycho" -- he bared his ass (didn't see unfortunately) in "Romantic Comedy" and also played the therapist in "Equus". If he had been in his teens or early 20s when the show was written, no doubt he'd probably be head of the line to play the nude Alan Strang role, too.

he had flat skinny ass in Romantic comedy, Mia Farrow was more curvaceous than he was

I wanted Woody for a while. I always wanted Woody.

he had Tab Hunter in his prime and you want me to feel sorry for him ? FUCK YOU OP

R21, That wasn't my experience with him at all. He loved life and loved other people. Someone who disliked himself could never fake that. He was also VERY funny. He was a bit dark, but he was a passionate man who loved life. He radiated love.

Didn't he submit voluntarily to conversion therapy? Weird guy but I do think he was attractive in a way.

He had one of the.most extensive and detailed Wikipedia pages I've ever seen. It.looks.like.someone out there cares a great deal.

Psycho VII: Rosemary & Norman's Baby

He and Grover Dale were a supercute couple.

I don't feel sorry for him. He got some prime snatch back in his day.

I feel sorry for me. He had longer relationships than I've had. :-(

very good R32 ! I remember some critic called the movie SECRET CEREMONY : "Who's afraid of Virginia Wolf's baby"

He was so pretty when he was very young. He sure wasn't when he was older. He hit that wall fast and hard

He had a good role in Remember My Name (1978) though the star was Geraldine Chaplin.

I get the three movies he made after psycho mixed up in my mind; in each of them he played opposite an older European leading lady (Bergman, mercouri, Loren). Did I read that ingrid Bergman fell in love with him while filming their movie together?

Bergman was the biggest whore in the biz. She fucked every one of her co-stars, an you imagine she even tried to fuck Perkins ? pathetic

[quote] Didn't he submit voluntarily to conversion therapy?

If by “conversion therapy” you mean my vagina, then yes.

[quote] He hit that wall fast and hard

That’s what I said!

Memorable too for co-starring with MTM in First You Cry.

he was all gams. I bet the minute he was in Tab's bed those heels hit the ceiling. I'm sure Tab loved to have them legs wrapped around his shoulders

OP you left out important details:

Top

Bottom

"Verse"

Sizemeat Verificatia

bottom for the ages. well hung. more diseased than a pidgeon. neurotic borderline psychotic.

Buck would never have been a bottom for the ages.

He was a neighbor when I lived in Chelsea , I usually saw him in the local greengrocer. He would cower on the checkout line, he didn't want to interact with anyone, we left him alone, a very creepy guy.

Was Tab Hunter a top or bottom?

Was he into masculine or feminine guys?

Was he gay or bi?

Did he ever have sex with a woman?

He was the saddest, creepiest man Ive ever seen in my life. There was something that was so wistful and bitter about him. I'm talking mid 80's here

Not really. He lived a pretty amazing 20th century life. Most of us can only dream of what he had access to.

R49 Tab was a dominant top as an adult, but a hustler when in his early teens, giving oral and butt sex to wealthy strangers , had a big dick, he was into cute masculine twinkish guys, and was bi. He had affairs with women, and competed with laurence Harvey's for the widow Cohn's affection.

That cute photo at r44 is from the 1960 film comedy TALL STORY, Jane Fonda's screen debut. They are both quite adorable in it and the film should be better known. It's about a co-ed who tries to land the star college basketball player and, as Josh Logan directed it, there are lots of shirtless locker room scenes.

Including a hot moment of young hunky Van Williams, also making his screen debut, emerging nude and wet (albeit artfully shot) out of the locker room shower.

Well, R12…..Tab Hunter is dead, isn’t he?

r54 = Van's big wet moment!

Remember My Name also features Berry Berenson playing Perkins' wife so its a real life reflection.

Here's Tony and Geraldine.

Why are we just now learning that Tab Hunter is bi? Everything we read about him is "closeted gay."

A friend of mine who played varsity basketball says Perkins was all wrong in terms of his basketball playing in "Tall Story".

Saw him just the other day in cult classic Crimes of Passion! He played another predictably creepy character.

Miss, with all due respect I have my own problems.

R59, because you're lazy and didn't do your homework. + when you're THAT handsome, you won't go through life without some fish experience.

He was kinda sexy in "Fear Strikes Out."

Here's Tony and Berry being interviewed together.

This movie with Perkins was shown often on cable in the early 80’s. It was actually titled “ffolkes” when I saw it, and starred Perkins as the bad guy and Roger Moore as the good guy (unsurprisingly). I thought it was pretty good at the time.

R37 - Perkins was 2 years older than Loren. Though, she was always a WOMAN, he's always gave a boyish vibe, so you're forgiven...

R63, What do you mean by if you're that handsome you won't go without fish experience?

Are you saying all Handsome men are bi?

no R70, I'm saying fish run after you and harass you, so in a lifetime, you hit it a couple times, or more. My experience anyway. I'm gayer than a pink flamingo, but my longest relationships were with fish, because they just won't leave me alone. I'm weak. + all actors are bi, it's the nature of the beast, but for some mysterious reason, the public of America is in complete denial about that

Not as tragic as his wife’s death.

How the hell did he NOT get nominated for an Oscar or Golden Globe etc. for Psycho?

One Berenson sister was dating Helmut Berger while the other was married to Tony Perkins. What was wrong with these chicks ? were they missing a chromosome or something ?

R73 because he wasn't very good ?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

^ did Perkin's son catch the gay as well?

Those darting eyes. Unforgettable. Kim Carnes should have sung about them.

R75 That’s an objectively ridiculous statement.

He was not very nice to Meg Tilly while making Psycho II. She discusses it here...

I only feel sorry for his son, Oz, who had a POS father and a mom who was in one of the hijacked planes that crashed into the WTC on 9/11.

Meg Tilly looks like the little lady who's handling you fried rolls across the counter

He was difficult to cast even before Psycho. he had good representation, but not always very good onscreen chemistry. He was destined for character roles, but probably wanted to be a bigger star.

[quote] but probably wanted to be a bigger star.

And I wanted to be a cosmonaut. He had ZERO range. weird physique. He was a bigger star than anyone could have predicted, thanks to that one movie.

Meg Tilly looks like the little lady who silently mops the floor once you've finished your wonton soup

Meg Tilly had Colin Firth!

Tab and Tony were not bisexual, my god. Is Gen Z invading this board?

Tab--No. Perkins--At least somewhat.

He had a very twitchy acting style--I think it came naturally, but Uta Hagen may have accentuated it. A bit of a male Sandy Dennis, but without her range of tics.

Tab had a long affair with french actress etchika choureau and almost married her, but chose to go back to Perkins instead. He also had a long affair with Joan Perry who wanted to marry him . How is that not Bi ?

[quote] How is that not Bi ?

I was married to a woman and fucked girls and I'm 100% gay. Not interested in snatch at all since I stopped deluding myself.

R93 no matter how hard they try, real gays can't get it up for women, you're not as gay as you think you are

Meg Tilly looks like the little lady who brings you the Huy Fong hot sauce and takes a bow on her way back to the kitchen

I am incapable of feeling sorry for people that are not just like me.

R80, I'm sure the problem was with Meg, since she's known as a kooky lady. My experience with him was completely different. He was an absolute pleasure to be around.

I don't see why anyone should be sorry. He had a very fulfilling life. He died of AIDS, but everybody dies one way or the other, How is it worse than cancer ? And he was already old and repulsive. nobody forced him to marry Berry Berenson, that was his choice, his truth, and his privilege. He could have given her the AIDS and that pretty fucked up. He was not a good person by all accounts.

There's absolutely no way to verify whether Tab ever fucked any women at all. I choose to believe he was 100% gay and perhaps tried fucking a woman or 2 in his youth in the hope that he could learn to like it and could marry to bolster his career. Nevertheless, it clearly didn't work on any level. I think when Tab's initial career highs were over, he came to realize he could be perfectly happy living the life of a gay man (even if he didn't come out beyond his friends until his elder years).

Tony, OTOH, I think was just a fucked up mess and in his middle age, felt he had to "convert" to straight because he could get no satisfaction, sexual or emotional, from any men and perhaps wanted to start a family.

All this is strictly my opinion, of course.

You didn't know them and haven't read Tab's book, so there's that.

True, I didn't know them but I did read Tab's book and will stick to my opinions, r100.

He was a walker for Joan Cohn, who collected them.

[quote] no matter how hard they try, real gays can't get it up for women, you're not as gay as you think you are

R94 You have a 1970's way of looking at sexuality.

R106 well, I AM from the 1970's

I agree that a 💯 gay man cannot fuck a woman.

R59, no I am not lazy you fakegay asshole, I'm referencing what has common been discussed about Tab Hunter. You're a bisexual cunt here to insult gay men so fuck off you dumb bitch..

He sounded like an opportunistic jerk throughout his career. Then he volunteered for conversion therapy and married a woman… so…

Ended his days being mean to poor Meg Tilly on the set of one of the PSYCHO sequels because she didn’t genuflect enough.

r71, dude you are a fucking bisexual, who of course takes the opportunity to knock gay men down a peg. You hit it because you're BI. Am I supposed to envy you? Get the fuck out of here. You think you're God's gift because you're a pussyfucker? You're a sociopath and an asshole so good for you.

OK R112, but I still think I'm a very nice guy.

Meg Tilly looks like the little lady who asks if your order is an eat-in or takeaway, and then makes an polite but incomprehensible statement in broken english that might -or might not be refering to the weather that day.

R109, "dumb bitch " is probably the most accurate way of describing me, but I still think you should have read that book. warm regards. DB

Anthony Perkins was quite good in 1978 television film Les Misérables.

Many then nor now may have have approved of Anthony Perkins "stealing" lead in film "Fear Strikes Out", from his "friend" (or lover) at the time Tab Hunter, but all is fair in love and war far as acting profession often goes.

No it's not right, but actors even when closest of friends have competed against each other for same roles for ages. Equally yes some have stolen roles from said close friend or something more, that's just how things often go.

Anthony Perkins always seemed more focused on his acting career than Tab Hunter. Like many others then and now he saw a vehicle felt was right for, and went after it regardless.

When filming "Tall Story" Jane Fonda and Anthony Perkins would rehearse in her dressing room between takes. Jane Fonda would take off all her clothing then sat down suggestively powdering her body as Tony Perkins sat cowering behind his copy of script. Once found out what time it was she stopped bothering trying to seduce Tony Perkins.

Either Tab Hunter or Jane Fonda confirms this story, it might be in "The Private Life of a Public Woman", 2012 by Patricia Bosworth.

Jane Fonda's early acting coach who traveled around with her when doing films including "In The Cool Of The Day", was Andreas Voutsinas, a queen well placed to know all the dirt. Mr. Ghia is most famous for his role as Carmen Ghia in film "The Producers".

R119, Voutsinas is a mental case who's been trying to survive in Europe for decades as an "acting coach" coasting on his once brief association with Fonda. Fonda is a whore, but everybody knew the score on Perkins when he arrived from NYC, they were both nepo children, and Perkins landed directly on Hunter's dick

R120 you know what ? I like you.

Tony Perkins was dating Teno Pollick a younger Broadway actor he picked up and brought to Europe when filming "Goodbye Again".

Anthony Perkins became friendly with Jules Dassin and Melina Mercouri on the set of "Goodbye Again" . Both Dassin and Mercouri were smitten with Perkins and he became sort of a step-son to them, but of course Mercouri had other ideas. She admitted if forced to chose between Raf Vallone and Tony Perkins, the latter would win hands down.

In some ways, yes one does feel a bit sorry for Anthony Perkins.

His mother did quite a number on Tony Perkins as a young boy and teen. It was basically sexual abuse that scared Tony Perkins for life.

Piled onto this was has TP grew into a young man his same sex attraction was manifesting itself, something TP tried to fight. He would wouldn't he? Again given what his mother put him through, and the then prevailing social feeling that gays were "immoral", "diseased", and just totally wrong.

All of this took a toll in a not unfamiliar way; Tony Perkins became a self hating gay. The man was a squirming bag of hot appetites. Drawn to men and enjoying physical relationships with same, but also totally unable to fully reconcile himself to what he was and get on with life.

TP tried all sorts of therapies including in 1972 undergoing electroshock aversion treatments. Finally losing his virginity (heterosexual) to Victoria Principal at age 39, TP went on to marry Marissa Berenson and breed two children. But of course the "cure" didn't take...

Those electroshock treatments took a toll on not only TP's looks, but acting talent. He just wasn't same afterwards.

We know TP was soon whoring around again with young men, being seen in places where he shouldn't (gay porn theatres), and in general carrying on as before.

One of those dalliances involved a young French twink shop bottom whom TP picked-up, seduced, bedded, then promptly dropped.

OKAY R124, My name is MARISA Berenson, and I never married the fucker. On a coke fuelled binge, I almost married Helmut Berger at Luchino's insistance that he would gift us one of his houses, but I came back to my senses quick enough and dumped the fag. My sister was not so smart. Quaalude is bitch

Berry appeared to have a lantern jaw.

Then as now plenty of gay men want children. Only way that happened until rather recently was via marriage to a woman and doing things the old fashioned way. That or maybe adopting as a straight married couple.

Tony Perkins was certainly not only gay man of his time that married and had children of his wife. In all pictures of the Perkins family TP looks over the moon joy with his boys.

Sir Harold Nicolson was gay, his wife Vita Sackville-West was a raging lesbian, yet they were in their way devoted to each other and their children.

R17

Anthony Perkins was supposed to star in Sondheim's "Company". Indeed the musical score was written for him playing Bobby. If one recalls details correctly Tony Perkins was involved early on when "Company" was going to be a play, TP was going to direct. When change was made to a musical he remained with production at first, then simply and abruptly walked away.

Perkins and Sondheim went back to among other things "Evening Primrose"

When from Evening Primrose

Sondheim and Perkins also collaborated on murder mystery film "The Last of Sheila".

I do hope that when Jane Fonda realized she wasn't going to get anywhere with Tony Perkins, she took advantage of Van Williams' nearby presence.

" Jane Fonda realized she wasn't going to get anywhere with Tony Perkins"

Amateur!

[quote]Most of us can only dream of what he had access to.

As this includes Stephen Sondheim, I think it's very safe to say that here.

The idea of all gays having to be gold stars, especially during a time where homosexuality was seen as a total taboo, is ridiculous and reductive. Most gay men have fucked a woman at some point, and Tony did so as a part of his personal conversion therapy. He hated being gay. He still died of AIDS like the self hating gay man he was.

"He still died of AIDS like the self hating gay man he was."

Would you just stop with that twisted bullshit.

Gay men period were infected with HIV and died from AIDS related illnesses. This ranged from out, proud and happy to closeted and or "self loathing".

If Tony Perkins or any one else knew what was lurking behind those gay sex encounters they wouldn't have done so. More so men like TP who would be "outed" by the illness despite often years of carefully crafted public lives otherwise.

People who make comments such as one above are no better than the haters who went (and are still) going around saying HIV/AIDS is God's punishment on gay men for putting their dicks where they shouldn't.

R137, please spare us the "being gay is just a genital preference" argument. That's the same bullshit trans people like to use to shame gay men into accepting their vaginas

I'm not implying he died of AIDS because he was self loathing, I'm saying it's ironic that a man who tried so hard to be straight because he hated himself still succumbed from the "gay" disease.

And I'm not arguing "being gay is a genital preference" either. It's naive to think that most gay men, especially in a very homophobic society don't attempt heterosexuality. Look at all these closet cases married to women even today. I wouldn't call a married man with children who spends all his free time fucking men on the side a "bisexual." This is what Perkins was.

So by your rationale all the gay black, Latino/Hispanic, Latin and other men who acted or wanted to be seen as straight, but were gay on down low also deserved to die of HIV/AIDs related infections of diseases.

Either you're a nasty piece of work, or just bat shit crazy.

Where did I fucking say he deserved to die? I said it's ironic and sad. Unclench, please.

It's ironic? Are you Alanis Morrisette?

It would be ironic if Anita Bryant died of AIDS.

R144 at the time it was still seen as a 'gay men's disease '. He volunteered for electro-shock to 'cure ' himself, add to that, in spite of his carefully curated public image an illness ostensibly 'outed' him: irony.

"Carefully curated." Tony Perkins wasn't Burt Raynolds.

Did Anita Morris take lovers while married to Grover Dale?

DataLounge. A place where bisexuality ceases to exist.

Well, a Perkins biography references "ex-gay" parties where "het" couples would attend and the men would cruise each other and arrange hook ups for later.

"McDermott goes on to say that he always had a soft spot for “daddy” types and that he and Hunter remained friends ever after. The same wasn’t true for McDermott and Anthony Perkins, whom the actor describes as “a game player” and self-loathing. McDermott says, “He’d say things to me like, ‘Have you noticed, watching my performance, what I’m doing differently?’ I’d watch over a period of time, then say, ‘I can’t see anything.’ Unlike [Richard] Burton, Tony did the same thing every night. He said, ‘I’m no longer raising my eyebrows anywhere in the play.’ I’d say, ‘Amazing.’ He once said, ‘I’ll get a word for you that can be critical, good or bad, about your performance, and you do the same for me.’ His word for me was poise. He wanted me to do a word for him, and I said unbelievable. McDermott also describes Perkins as frequently checking out men in the audience, and claims he married a woman so he could have a more “settled” life."

Dylan McDermott is older than I thought.

R148 PLEASE! I've been to a Bar Mitzvah ONCE and nobody calls me jewish.

Did Tab only go for fems? Was he ever with masculine men?

I don't recall his husband as femme. There's also a "secretary" in a late 1970s TV profile.

Tab's husband was very attractive, handsome and not particularly fem, just much younger

Anyone ever heard Tab's husband talk? What do you think of his voice?

I’m no longer raising my eyebrows anywhere in the play.

TP eyebrows raising was 68% of his acting. Gulping was 29

His voice is a tell, yes. I'd say that Tab liked twinkish, more than anything.

I 've always found Anthony Perkins creepy and he lacked sex appeal.

Despite his face was kinda goodlooking i never found him actractive.

He took AIDS during his marriage? His Wikipedia Page is so long but avoid talking about his illness

Where is the McDermott (Keith, I presume) interview to be found? If upthread, I missed it.

On datalounge of course, where else ?

Tony looked luscious on his album cover.

he's like Lauren Bacall, drop dead gorgeous in his early 20s, then overnight haggard and dessicated. What causes that ?

Didn’t he get some prime dick back in the day?

Lauren Bacall's in all those Roddy Malibu movies ,too, and even that bitch appears more warm and friendly than Tony Perkins.

I know it's been played to death, but this 6 min reel has a better cast than any movie ever

When did Datalounge get invaded by all these fakegays?

R169 haven't you heard ? Datalounge is for everybody

What's a fakegay? Someone who (gasp!) kissed a woman once?

R172, why was he kissing her? Care to explain?

R170 Tab was so pretty it's almost intolerable

I go back and forth on Tab's looks, probably because blonds require more careful photographing. It was not unusual for him to have unflattering hair.

While we're at it; Anita Morris was a very attractive (ok, hot), vivacious, young talented actress and dancer. She could have had her pick of any man but married Grover Dale and remained so until her death. There was no way Ms. Morris didn't know about Grover Dale's tastes, yet they were a very happy couple with a child. So either Grover Dale was really good at faking things with Ms. Morris, or he genuinely loved the woman.

Unlike his ex-lover Tony Perkins to best of one's knowledge there isn't a hint of Grover Dale hooking up with guys while married to Anita Morris. They were together for about twenty years until her death, so that's saying something.

If there ever was a woman who could turn a gay man straight, it was Anita Morris.

Damn fine looking woman.

"I'd rather crash my plane in the WTC than go on living with that human cesspool".

Didn't Anita Morris fight cervical cancer for over a decade. Not to be crude, but...

With respect, what reporter would care to dig for dirt on Grover Dale?

Grover trying to serve horny matador but giving naughty schoolboy at best.

Grover and George giving their best "horny straight roadies"

R179

Anita Morris was diagnosed with terminal ovarian cancer in 1980, and given only about five years to live. She ended up living 14 years before dying of the disease.

Some are like that; told to "go home and get your affairs in order", they say "fuck that", and end up living far longer than predicted.

R180

One has to give Grover Dale credit where due, he has remained ever the gentleman in refusing to dish any dirt. This applies to Tony Perkins and likely much else about gay Hollywood and musical theatre performers.

Maybe he'll pull a Roddy McDowall and leave his papers or even a memoir that cannot be made pubic for many decades after his death. By that time both his and Tony Perkins children will be dead as will remotely anyone else involved.

I could keep watching those Roddy home movies for the rest of my life but I wish someone clever and knowledgeable would go through them and add IDs of everyone who appears in them.

Sad to say but in another 30 years no one will be alive who will care a fig about the secrets Roddy and Grover brought to their graves.

For you elder theatre gays; OBC of Half A Sixpence featuring Grover Dale.

Can't say aside from Mr. Dale know none of other cast members.

Was Tony ever thought of as fem?

Yeah baby!

Like none of you wouldn't hit that!

Only sorry one feels is wasn't around when young Tony Perkins was living in Manhattan. I'd have cruised the fuck out of the guy until he gave in..

Tony would have "given in" before you finished saying HI

I would have no interest in being tied up. I would have preferred Robert Wagner, I think.

Maybe when Tab Hunter was young things were different, but that was before my time. Only know him from 1970's and 1980's (guest starring on tv shows like Cannon, or film "Lust In The Dust", and he looked rather tired and worn.

Wonder if Tony Perkins had the balls to sneak down to the piers or that infamous truck parking lot in Meatpacking district. He lived in area, and we know he did slip into gay porn theatres....

Tab looked middle aged by 1965. I blame Tallulah Bankhead.

R188

That effeminate quality was reason French audiences loved Tony Perkins so much.

When studio system ended like everyone else it was every man and woman for themselves. Tony Perkins found a warm reception in Europe particularly France and IIRC Italy as well. Fact TP was fluent in French sealed the deal.

Tony speaking francais fluent

Tab Hunter at his cutest....

I think Tab was one of the most beautiful men who ever lived, and was at the zenith of his beauty in the 70's, around SWEET KILLS

He looked a lil crispy thee.

I don't think Tab ever heard a NO in his life. Not even from a straight.

r195, at the time (late 60s?) there were stories about Perkins riding his bike around the meatpacking district with a yellow handkerchief in his back pocket.

I expect he heard NO from his agent many a time. Why do you think he ended up on the dinne theatre circuit?

[quote] He was a limited bag of tricks

He needed a LOT of grooming and astute photographing.

His body proportions were all over the place—

Cute face with a tiny jawline. Wide shoulders on a camel's body.

R206

Had to look up "yellow handkerchief".

Got it now..

R187 You seem to have forgotten that big-nosed Cockney named 'Tommy Steele'.

Even the geriatric Disney thought 'Tommy Steele' was worth investing in a few million.

Was his wife bisexual as well?

Annoying that NewNowNext links redirect to fucking YouTube.

Tab was jealous of Rock Hudson

Hudson was more of a priority. Wasn't Tab thrown to the wolves (Confidential) in exchange for killing a story on Rock?

[quote]R211 Was his wife bisexual as well?

No. She wasn’t interesting enough for that.

Imagine the bodies at R184 and R191 in bed together.

They fucked the living daylights out of each other for six years.

No, I do not feel sorry for Anthony Perkins.

R177, so you believe in conversion therapy? Aren't you endorsing something heinous? So gay men just "need to meet the right woman?"

When I was in high school, I saw a matinee of ROMANTIC COMEDY with Perkins and Mia Farrow. I waited at the stage door. Mia never came out but TP did signed my playbill and rode off down the block on his bike. Didn't notice a handkerchief but I still have the playbill.

[quote] Perkins and Mia Farrow.

An anorexic duo.

R221, nice post . Where do you think Mia was, then ?

Sondheim told the story in an interview (can't recall where but I think it was an old one) about coming home one Christmas Eve and finding a new bike, with a big red bow--a gift from Perkins.

Wasn't sondheim a leather pig who liked his hole to be fisted and pissed in in public ?

You have a remarkable fantasy life, R225

If these walls could talk!

Again it was well known both in Hollywood and NYC theatre circles Tony Perkins was gay (or strongly bent in that direction).

Studios and others who were trying to make Tony Perkins the next big thing from films to music gave him is marching orders; butch it up or else.

In response came the odd ménage a trois of Helen Merrill, Grover Dale and Anthony Perkins all sharing that house in Chelsea.

Ms. Merrill is another one who might have had much dirt to spill, but she took it all to her grave.

"Along the way, she formed an intimate relationship with the actor Anthony Perkins, which lasted for more than a decade. She was 14 years older than Perkins, and Charles Winecoff, in his biography of Perkins, portrays her in the role of protector to the temperamental young movie star."

One wonders at just how "intimate" that relationship went.

Troll for hot young gay meat that he was, Henry Willson discovered both Tab Hunter and Rock Hudson.

By middle of 1950's Tab Hunter had escaped the clutches of Henry Wilson but Rock Hudson was still on his books and a hot/up and coming property. Shit stirring rag mag Confidential was going to run a story basically outing Rock Hudson. Wilson got wind of it and cut a deal, he would feed them some other fresh meat (Hunter), as a substitute story if they let Rock Hudson story drop.

Tab Hunter had been arrested and charged with disorderly conduct several years before when some beach or whatever party (largely or all male) was raided or some other LE action By time Confidential was finished with story it sounded like Hunter was caught at some gay pajama orgy.

Like Roddy McDowall, and quite a few others Tab Hunter (and Rock Hudson) were known to be gay by everyone in Hollywood who was an insider to that community. You could add Tony Perkin's name to that list not long after he arrived out west and soon took up with his new "friend" Tab Hunter.

Tab Hunter was brought up in church (Roman Catholic), and thus was highly conflicted about his homosexuality. By young man age he knew what he was, and tried to reconcile beliefs he was taught (and thought he accepted) to the obvious problems that come from being an active homosexual which is a mortal sin.

One thing Tab Hunter wouldn't do is marry a female like other gay actors to throw people off the scent. He felt either way that proposition was a losing one; it wasn't fair to woman in question, and would be lying to himself as well.

no man was gay for Natalie

I don't understand, r232.

I wonder how a Tab and Debbie Reynolds marriage would have played out. It may well have worked. Debbie didn't like sex (with men). And Tab seemed to avoid public/restroom shenanigans. With how much time Debbie and Tab spent out on the road, they could have been very happy separate while benefitting from the marriage image. Tab might have had a higher public profile to boot.

To correct a few things; Tab Hunter was a good enough actor, but not great. Reviews of his films usually weren't glowing. But as a contract actor Warner Bros. did what they thought best with Tab Hunter.

Mr. Hunter did try to improve his acting chops. He went live television route (Playhouse 90) which was at the time full of serious actors both famous then or would be in future.

It was one of those television productions (Climax) that Tab Hunter landed role of Jimmy Piersall in adaptation of "Fear Strikes Out".

Warner Bros refused to purchase the book "Fear Strikes Out" for Tab Hunter. Paramount did pick up the property and staring role went to Tony Perkins. Thus is wasn't as if the two lovers were at same studio competing for the role of Jimmy Piersall. Warner Bros. would have to either loan or come to some other arrangement with Paramount for Tab Hunter to star in that film.

After that bit Tab Hunter made probably one of the worst career decisions of his life, he bought out his contract from Warner Bros. Virtually overnight Tab Hunter became a nobody far as much of Hollywood was concerned. WB already had a new blonde stud under contract (Troy Donohue), and world moved on.

We know what came next in that it wasn't but a decade or so before entire studio system was over, but from late1950's onwards into 1960's while it was active Tab Hunter suffered professionally without the power of Jack Warner and his studio.

Tab made his own version of Psycho in the early 1970s, right? I expect it's bad.

R236 I didn’t know that, how funny

Note the male secretary at 2:30.

The movie went under various titles, including "Sweet Kill." It was written and directed by L.A. Confidential's Curtis Hanson.

Trailer. The movie was re-released with additional sex scenes as "The Arousers."

[quote] Tab made his own version of Psycho in the early 1970s, right? I expect it's bad.

It's not. It's a time capsule, lots of cheap nudity, but it's very interesting. I like it a lot. SWEET KILLS (the arousers). Tab is EXCELLENT in it. very honest, very touching. Brave performance.

Alfred Hitchcock saw Tony Perkins in "Fear Strikes Out" and wanted him for Psycho. That must have twisted knife a bit deeper between the two once close Tab Hunter and Tony Perkins. TP's career was going up, while TH well, wasn't.

But these sort of things are common among gay couples who inhabit same performing arts/entertainment world. Dancers, actors, etc... a role or part comes up that both want but only one person is going to get.

R233 Natalie had a long history of fucking gays and bis. Starting with Raymond Burr, Her husband of course, RJ Wagner, Nick Ray, french actor Jean-claude Brialy, who was gayer than a pink flamingo, she didn't mind, and they had the hots for her.

Far as one knows Tab Hunter never gloated; but there is something to be said that he lived to a ripe old age, avoiding HIV/AIDS, and finally marrying a man he loved. This while his ex Tony Perkins lead a hot mess of a life which included trying very hard to run away from what he was (gay), whoring around and ultimately HIV/AIDS.

Tab Hunter may not have had a huge career, but the man had money. Estates in Montecito ain't cheap.

That number Grover Dale did with Dolores Gray in R181 shows he was a great dancer and performer.

Working with a star requires a dancer to know his/her place. She/he has to know their moves, but focus is always on the star.

All the time Grover Dale is leering and or making moves on Ms. Gray, you still don't lose focus on her.

I don't think Grover pulls off sexual heat/threat at all in that number. And when Dolores waves him away... No. As the kids say, "It's not giving."

R245

We've done this to death; much if not all old Hollywood were republicans. Tab Hunter, Rock Hudson, etc....

GOP then wasn't the train of cranks, kooks, and loons it is today.

Tab lived to an old age, though... I get it. He was rich. He cared only about himself and taxes.

By the time Tab broke with Warner Bros (was that in 1958-59, after Damn Yankees?) his career was already seriously waning and I can't imagine the studio would have cared enough to turn it around in the early 60s. His bobbysoxer fans had grown up and moved on. And there were new straight teen idols who didn't make Jack Warner nervous.

Most of the Warner Bros output of the time that would have suited Tab were all those ABC TV series like Hawaiian Eye and Surfside 6, which did nothing for any of those actors. And then, of course, by 1967, the very idea of Tab Hunter seemed totally anachronistic.

I've always loved him but his big stardom was only ever meant to be brief.

Tab could have been the Green Hornet or something.

R250 he came at the very end of the studio system. The last 7 years contracts signed by WB were, Tab , Natalie, and Jimmy Dean. Debbie had been signed shortly before, but Warner decided he wouldn't do any more musicals and sold her to MGM. Natalie fought very hard for better scripts, went on suspension for a year and a half (the longest a star went on suspension, she won, but was punished later), Tab bought off his contract and was thrown to the wolfes by Warner, and Jimmy, well we know how it ended.

Yeah,r251, like that would have saved his career.

By 1960's not only were new breed of actors dominating film screens, Hollywood had a new blonde male heartthrob who was nothing like Tab Hunter; Robert Redford.

[Quote] Yeah,[R251], like that would have saved his career.

Well, "Honey West" only ran for a season but it kept Anne Francis from being a '50s hasbeen. Anne had better chops than Tab, of course.

Tab Hunter was awful in Grease 2

R13 It was called Tab Hunter Confidential (if anyone happens to be looking for it) - Tab's cowriter was TCM's Eddie Meuller.

My dad (who was a Red Sox fan) thought Tony was miscast as Jiimy Piersall, said he acted "too sensitive". My dad wouldn't have said to me, as a kid, that Tony acted too gay but that's probably what he meant. I never saw the TV version with Tab Hunter but Tab was masculine and actually athletic (he was a very good skater) so I think he might have been better suited to the role.

[Quote]nobody forced him to marry Berry Berenson, that was his choice, his truth, and his privilege. He could have given her the AIDS and that pretty fucked up.

You do amuse, frau. His truth? His priviledge? Oh, gurl. It's called a lavender marriage and if you think AP was fucking BB there's no hope for you. Marissa Berenson is gay as well.

R254 no coincidence here. Tab was assigned crappy movies with Natake Wood. The scripts were so bad he refused bomber b 52's and another, that she made with someone else. He says in his book he didn't know she was in them at the time. Anywayz, when she won her battle and chose WWS, he naturally thought he would be her leading man and he wanted to do it , and when he was even refused an audition, he was flabbergasted. Natalie become an even greater star, wanted a new partner, she saw Redford in a broadway play, and was adamant to cast him in two movies against the Hollywood's sages best advice. Tab finally played Tony on stage, Natalie never had an oscar as a punishment for her stubborness, She could never find the fundings for I never promised you a rose garden her passion project, and when Redford became the great star, and she began to decline she begged for the MTM par in ordinary people, and he didn't return her calls. Asshole

Natalie and Tab got as far as their talent warranted.

R258 what about the children are they fake ? Face it bitch, movie stars do what they please, and you don't, . I'm all male BTW

R260, yeah top of the box office for both, not bad

R258 you're gay, you're flaming, you never passed for one second as anything but gay gay gay, and you'll never be married, nor have children, you'll always be a freak . gay gay gay . Tony was handsome, rich, famous, he could fuck and marry whoever he wanted, and you never will, you've lost the lottery, wrong ticket, sorry, goood luck for your next life HAHAHAHAHAHA

Don't you have mass to attend, Michael?

R263 So, Tony died of AIDS at 60, you think he *won* the lottery?

[quote]what about the children are they fake ?

Christ, do we have to explain this as well to you, Frau von Fraustei?

R265, BREAKING NEWS you'll die too, it's a curse

Guys, please block r263. This gay-hating bible thumping black gash needs to be flung out of DL onto her putrid ass.

[quote] Tab Hunter was awful in Grease 2

yeah like the rest of the cast deserved a SAG, Grease 2 is not really the kind of material that makes the performers shine.

[quote] This gay-hating bible thumping black gash needs to be flung out of DL onto her putrid ass.

Again ? I'm a man baby, and I belong here

Men don't have gashes. This is a gay board. Bugger right off, Bulah. And take your Bible. Scoot.

Tab was limited and made the most of what he had and ended up working for quite awhile, which is more than can be said for some of the other pretty boys who come and go in Hollywood to this day. He also seemed to be a pleasant person and aged into a handsome, mature man.

Tony was fortunate enough to have an iconic performance in Psycho which is more than Tab ever had. Tab might have aged better, lived longer, been a more likable person, etc. but he never played a role that unforgettable. Who can really say which is better in the long run since Tony felt so haunted by his role as Norman Bates. At least he finally embraced it in the last decade of his life and did the three sequels. I feel sorry that he felt the need to go through conversion therapy to rid himself of the shame of being gay. That always makes me sad and I'm even more depressed that it's still going on to this day. I can't help but feel sorry for those people, because I understand those feelings all too well from my youth. Not all of us make it out to the other side and accept our identities.

Did Sondheim continue to be friends with Perkins?

Sondheim apparently continued to be friends with all his former lovers, including the ersatz first "husband" Peter Jones. Why make an exception for Perkins

Well, Perkins went ex-gay.

Sondheim wasn't exactly a one man pride parade for most of his career either. He was in his 50s or 60s before he was in a very public relationship. It was a very different time.

True. But what has that to do with whether he remained friends with former lovers, R278?

R227 That was an interesting site. Lot's of info on there. Like Perkin's wife "Berry" Berenson was on one of those planes that hit the WTC/911.

R209 I remember the hanky codes and when they came in. I was in NY then. In a way it was kind of fun, like a decoder ring. Part of a secret society. The talk about it was so horrible to hide your true self but there was another side to it. The thrill of the cloak and dagger set (I leave it up to you to figure out what the dagger was). The secret bars.

If only I had invested in those handkerchiefs. Wonder which one sold the most?

I expect the brown sold the least.

[quote] If these walls could talk!

That’s what I tell my pussy every night.

Anthony Perkins, Andy Gibb... who else did Victoria Principal ruin?

the VICTORIA PRINCIPAL troll is hilarious

Though Tab presumably enjoyed a happy elder life, it does sadden me that he never got that one great comeback role that might have proven he was a better actor than most of Hollywood thought. I know there were the roles with John Waters, but I mean something a little more mainstream. He did work with some great directors when he was young, like Sidney Lumet, and it's sad that one of them didn't come around and offer Tab a featured or supporting role in something decent.

If he could a been, he woulda been. And that's show business.

Tab Hunter was in 1959 film "That Kind Of Woman" starring young Sophia Loren.

He was "ok", but hardly displayed serious acting chops.

Tab Hunter should have gone to an acting school, that seems clear.

Tab in 1956 "The Girl He Left Behind"

Again TH is handsome enough, but his acting just isn't all that great. He was a "himbo" whose main screen qualifications were his looks.

Had Tab Hunter came along a decade or so earlier when Warner Bros and other studios were at their peak, then maybe more effort would have been put into making him a dramatic actor.

Young, blonde and gorgeous Robert Redford early in his career did lots of television. Even then you could see which way things were going in terms of "beautiful" male dramatic actors.

Tab Hunter could never pull this scene off.

Yes, Tony Perkins could have a creepy side about him, but he often made that work.

Pretty Poison from 1968 is but a case in point.

"..that one great comeback role that might have proven he was a better actor than most of Hollywood thought. "

If anyone connected with Hollywood, theatre or whatever in USA or even Europe thought Tab Hunter had unknown depths as an actor, his phone would have rung.

Tab Hunter along with this partner, and later husband Allan Glaser worked very hard to reinvent TH after he left WB. There were some successes, but by and large TH remained confined to dinner theatre circuit.

In your minds go through major motion pictures released in USA or even Europe of any note between 1960 and say 2000 (latter being rather generous) and find a starring role as major dramatic lead that Tab Hunter could have pulled off.

Bette Davis was famous for going about how she was an "actress", while people like Joan Crawford were movie stars. This was Tab Hunter's problem IMHO, he was a creation of Hollywood studio system far as that went, but it wasn't enough to sustain a major career.

Tony Perkins was the son of a actor and a theatrical one himself. This likely played some part in how driven he was about his career compared to say Tab Hunter.

End of studio system and other changes in Hollywood hit older actors hard across the board. But Tony Perkins was able to draw upon reserves to find other work on both stage and screen. This even if it meant joining a not small list of American actors who took work in Europe.

R243, Raymond Burr fucked Natalie Wood? So all those men you named were bisexual?

Raymond Burr pretended his women had all died. He was not muff diving.

For my money young Troy Donahue blew Tab Hunter out of the water looks wise.

As for you Troy Donahue, I know what *you* want to do.....

R297, R298 Boys with soft fleshy faces do not age well.

ArtIe Kelm (aka Hunter) had strong bones and looked pretty good until he became an octagenarian.

How come none of you Broadway queens have informed us about this?

[quote] Perkins was involved in the 1960 Broadway musical Greenwillow, written by Frank Loesser. The plot has the men are meant to wander and women (if they can keep their husbands) are supposed to settle down and have children. Loesser caught onto Perkins' homosexuality fast and, disliking him for it, decided to upstage him, writing his main solo, "Never Will I Marry", as something reminiscent of an opera ballad.

I don't feel sorry for Perkins. He was a selfish prick. A gay man chauvinist. He got the life and career he created for himself. Not a nice person.

The Girl He Left (For a Man's) Behind

Poor man. He went through Hell. Conversion therapy. Brain damage. AIDS.

And he seemed quite good in the beginning of his career. Handsome, too.

I saw him in some Euro production in which he played an ex-hudband angered by the fact that his ex-wife had become a lesbian.

It was amusing because he was so fey on screen and he sounded like a bitchy queen throwing barbs at his ex for being gay.

Did Tab EVER date masculine men? If so, then who?

^ Somebody has dubbed Perkins' voice in that clip.

R300

Miss Girl, that clip of Tony Perkins from Greenwillow appears in nearly every DL thread on the guy.

Please keep up..

"I don't feel sorry for Perkins. He was a selfish prick. A gay man chauvinist. He got the life and career he created for himself. Not a nice person."

Tony Perkins is dead, you cannot feel anything for him including sorry. About the life he lead, his career, or for his soul would be another matter.

I didn't ask the metaphysically flawed question, R309, Dora Nitpickins Dumbfuck, OP did.

[quote] Do you feel sorry for Anthony Perkins?!

Yes, I do, OP. I also feel sorry that Greta Garbo was misunderstood and that James Mason was so foolish as to marry that vampire named Pamela Kellino.

I'm sorry that George Cukor was making movies before his time and that that English bitch refused to allow Dirk Bogarde to star in 'Gigi' back in '58.

Don't forget GYPSY/MAME for Judy.

That r168 Roddy McDowall home movie is one of the best! Just when you think you've seen everyone, including Tuesday Weld, Natalie Wood, Betty Bacall, Tony Perkins and a host of local beach boys, Judy Garland, Tom Tryon, Jane Fonda, Suzanne Pleshette, David O Selznick, Jennifer Jones, Ben Gazzara, Tony Randall, Polly Bergen, Janice Rule, and Cathleen Nesbitt (or is it Gladys Cooper?) all show up, All smoking like fishes. And Dominick Dunne was a hot little piece!

Can anyone identify the local lady in the purple sweater who's at the very beginiing? And the 2 handsome gents who appear next?

Tab was cast as the lead in Visconti's masterpiece VAGHE STELLE DELL'ORSA, and worked on the script to develop the character, unfortunately for him, Visconti watched STOLEN HOURS, and had an immediate and raging hard-on for Michael. Tab went out the window

Damn. And Michael Craig went to become a screen legend!

Michael is a screen legend in my wank bank

[quote] "Do you feel sorry for Anthony Perkins?!"

No. He's been dead for thirty years.

If he'd lived, he'd have turned ninety this year.

[quote] Damn. And Michael Craig went to become a screen legend!

Michael is an academy award, BAFTA award nominated actor/screenwriter, he had a very solid career for over 5 decades, was the biggest box-office draw in the UK in the early 60's, and had starring roles for the likes of Losey, Visconti, and many others. He might not be a big star in the US, but he had pussies moisting all over the British isles for half a century.

Fun fact, he was also Natalie Wood's brother in law, and is the uncle of Natasha Gregson-W.

Michael Craig's brief box office draw only happened because DL fave Dirk Bogarde opted out of the Doctor series for a while. Craig's fortunes were such that by the mid 1960s he played second fiddle to Streisand in the London production of "Funny Girl." No real male star would have accepted the role.

Michael sent the doctors series box office through the roof, in a way that Dirk could only dream of, and as you know, starred with the RSC in legendary productions on both sides of the pond, and became an academy award nominated writer

Michael tried lots of things, certainly, including producing.

Michael Craig had great success in Europe and America, including the not so terrible STAR! with Julie Andrews, until he moved to Australia, and he was still a welcome presence in international films after that. He's THE SMALLEST GIANT

[Quote] the not so terrible

Even you know you're reaching with that descriptor.

R323, he's charming, it's a lush production, she's terrible, but it's not worse than Gypsy with Natalie, or funny lady. It's been re-released recently with better reviews IIRC, and a standing ovation

Do we know if Perkins ever slept with Farley Granger? I can't imagine two of Hitchcock's babes never hooking up.

Don't know about Perkins, but once upon a time Farley Granger was with Arthur Laurents, and also with Bernstein. There's a funny story (very old, and probably apocryphal) in which Farley and Lenny were having phone sex and some other friends present in the house turned on the speaker phone.....

R313,

[quote]Can anyone identify the local lady in the purple sweater who's at the very beginiing? And the 2 handsome gents who appear next?

That lady is Ellen Griffin Dunne, aka Lenny, aka Mrs Dominic Dunne. The camera then pans to a gent I don't recognize, then pans to Roddy's boyfriend.

A former lover of Tony Perkins described him as creepy and liked the sight of blood during sex. That made me think that beneath that nervous and vulnerable exterior was a dark persona.

R329 it's well known. he was a major creep

In the Roddy video, May 31, 1965 was Memorial Day Monday, and the old man near the end was producer David O. Selznick who died three weeks later.

I never know there were so many self-loathing gays still alive posting on here.

Well, R334, get educated or go!

Fuck you homophobic fags. I can't believe the best you can do is bash gold star gays, you people are fucking pathetic. Have gay men always been this shitty?

R336 Are you "DarkeMingeLord"?

Gold star gays, beware WE'RE GOING TO BASH YOU

And fuck you dumbass homophobic pigs who think you're some hot shit because you're attempted to be straight and fucked some bitch. FUCK YOU. You dumb bitches can kiss my ass. You think you're some superior form of gay because you're a pussyfucker? You motherfuckers are sick.

R172, fakegay would gay porn stars Seth Knight, Joel Someone, Brock Banks, Brian Bonds, people who have professed that they are gay but are still pursuing sex with women while at the same professing to be gay. Which leads to EXGAY as well.

"Pursuing sex." They're hookers, dear. If you have some coin, they'll lick it and stick it.

I'm so impressed with your snappy repartee, r340. So articulate.

OK you precious butterflies might not want to read the "Matteo Lane" threads...

R343, you're not helping.

So....at these Roddy McDowall beach parties like those that are captured in his home movies, do you think the gay men, like Roddy and Tony (and Rock Hudson and Sal Mineo who both appear in other beach party home movies) could be comfortably out of the closet with their straight friends and colleagues, perhaps speak about relationships with men they were experiencing, etc? I mean, Roddy's various boy friends were even at the parties.

But do you think the gayness was acknowledged in any way or just simply left unspoken? Like....how would Roddy introduce those boyfriends to his other guests, for example? I'm sure most of the guests were sophisticated enough to accept homosexuality but how much was casually talked about? I'm assuming, of course, that the gay stars spoke openly and schmoozed with each other at least.

Maybe I'm making too much of it all. I'm just really curious what the day to day life of a gay movie star was like back then. I'd bet that even in 1965 it was still a very tense existence.

I doubt it. They could be flamboyant. But talking about the second sphincter? No.

I doubt Jennifer Jones, Gladys Cooper, or Betty Bacall would've wanted to be regaled by Roddy stories of how he sucks his own dick.

R347

Very few gay couples or singles for that matter in entertainment circles would have broadly let their guard down in company. Well not at least if they were not entirely sure of everyone attending event, and or whatever.

Roddy had his boy de jour or whoever he was tight with at time in these films, and probably things were discussed "entre nous" between other guests and friends whose discretion could be replied upon. Roddy was famous for keeping other people's secrets, thus one suspects things went both ways.

Christopher Isherwood and Donald Bachardy were among handful of gay couples or singles who didn't give a flying fuck what people thought. They went to parties together and otherwise behaved as an out and proud couple. Everyone knew and this did cause some friction with certain persons meaning one or both simply weren't invited to events or received at particular houses, but by and large within the society they kept neither man suffered great harm.

Jack Larson and his partner James Bridges were together for about forty years. People knew and they of course went to parties and or discussed things with intimates they were sure of, but otherwise... Proof of this came how Jimmy Larson was "out" in that sense but general public at large had no idea. This despite JL carrying on with Montgomery Clift before settling down with James Bridges.

Hayden Rorke and Justus Addiss met in the mid-1930s and were together until Addiss's death in 1979. Again people knew including cast and crew from I Dream of Jeannie who dined or otherwise visited the couple at their home.

I don't feel sorry for him, he was an asshole. I would have loved to fuck him when he was younger.

[quote] he was an asshole

Are you Tab Hunter?

You were very much mismatched with Tony Perkins. He was an intellectual who wanted Broadway and European intellectuals. You wanted horses and a quiet life with the occasional show tune. The relationship was doomed to failure.

Watched him playing, what else, a creep opposite Miss Ross in Monotony on TCM a few weeks ago.

People keep banging on about how badly used Tab Hunter was by Anthony Perkins totally ignoring key facts.

First and foremost Tony Perkins like many young actors then and now was focused on his career. Sex and so on was all very well (and TP went through the circuit of gay entertainers/actors), but the man had an agenda.

Who knows if it was love or lust at first sight when Tab Hunter caught sight of TP across the pool at Chateau Marmont. Clearly TP did not lose sight of why he was brought out to LA in first place.

You lot can slag on Tony Perkins all you like, but all and all even then the young actor was noted for his ability to play roles requiring emotional depth. That in long run is why Paramount went with TP for "Fear Strikes Out", and why WB didn't even bother buying the property for Tab Hunter.

"When Anthony was just 15 years old, he started doing theater performances. Then, in 1953 he made his big-screen debut in The Actress, starring Spencer Tracy. The following year he received praise for his role in Broadway production Tea and Sympathy, and in 1957 he was nominated for Best Supporting Actor for his role in the 1956 film Friendly Persuasion. Over the next few years Anthony became known for his ability to play roles with great emotional depth and sincerity, starring in anything from Westerns to romance movies, including a standout performance that demonstrated his emotional depth in Fear Strikes Out. (That was the film part that he "stole" from Tab Hunter, effectively putting an end to their relationship)."

One feels sorry for nasty hateful gays who just cannot wrap their heads around fact Tony Perkins (in his way) was happy being a husband and father. He was devoted to his family, everyone says so even TP's harshest critics.

I like what you say R354.

I wish Tony played in the movie of 'Tea and Sympathy' because John Kerr was so epicene/unappealing and the direction so ham-fisted.

Jane Fonda did try her best.....

Even that old slag Zsa Zsa Gabor wanted a slice of Tony Perkins..

In this scene from Good-Bye Again (1960) Tony Perkins displays sort of qualities that endeared him to European audiences and others for that matter. Good-looking, but gangly and sort of shy, however once that first initial impression passes you become aware there's something more going on.

Mike Wallace interview with Tony Perkins (1958). It was clear then TP was going places (or at least big money was going to try damn hard), which again likely poured fuel on fire that ended his relationship with TH.

Masculine competitive aggression can be a nasty thing. But when you have two gay males in same profession or whatever it often becomes something that makes Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf seem like nursery story.

Then or now an actor like Tab Hunter faced with similar situation has few options. He can either put a good face on things and remain loyal/supportive; or get into a frightful bait which will only lead to heated quarrels.

Watching this interview at the time one guesses Tab Hunter's balls shrank right up to his stomach.

[quote] Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf

No, he would not do a scene like that. He was an avoider; he hated conflict. He preferred to spend time with his horses (on his succession of ranches)

Changing pace for a moment, that other gay actor, Rock Hudson being interviewed about "Seconds" in 1965, on location in Scarsdale, New York.

Rock was still quite good looking in 1965. Shame about the paunch though, you'd think he would have worked out or something to keep the flab off.

R364

Guess Dot's "We Do Not Belong Together" from Sunday in The Park with George is out as well. *LOL*

One reason that song and much of book packs an emotional punch is it sums up so many relationships, gay or straight. One person "is what he does", and is on a mission which will not end until quest is completed. On the other side you have someone who needs and or wants more, but that just isn't going to happen.

TP doing an interview with Bob Costas in 1990. He would be dead about two years later...

1984 interview with Bobbie Wygant.

R297, get your prescription checked, STAT.

Troy Donahue was a limp rag (in more ways than one) compared to Hunter. And closeted to the extreme.

R300, well Loesser did what he set out to do. What a gawd-awful song.

Trivia from film "Good-bye Again"

"One of the first scenes to be filmed called for Ingrid Bergman and Anthony Perkins to share a passionate kiss. Bergman had found a similar situation while she was filming Gaslight (1944) extremely uncomfortable. In that film, she was forced to shoot an intimate and romantic scene with Charles Boyer on the first day of production, minutes after meeting the man. Bergman so disliked the experience of kissing a man she had just met on screen that she vowed never to do it again. When she was once again asked to film a romantic scene with a man she hardly knew for this film, Bergman took action. She asked Perkins to practice kissing her privately, in her dressing room, before their scene was filmed on camera. According to Bergman, Perkins obliged, and by the time they performed their scene in front of the camera neither actor found the scene uncomfortable."

and..

"Titles considered for the film: 'The Way We Are,' 'Time on Her Hands,' and 'Paula." It was Tony Perkins who suggested 'Goodbye Again' because it was the title of one of his father's most successful stage plays."

BEING GAY ISN'T AND HAS NEVER BEEN AN EXCUSE FOR NOT MARRYING AND FATHERING CHILDREN

I suspect both Tab and Tony were big fans of What's My Line? because both appeared, not only as Mystery Guests, but even as subs on the panel, Tony a few times.

Tab is quite charming in his appearances, so young, sweet and open. Tony is just...rather peculiar.

R372, YOU'RE A GAYBASHING FUCK, PROBABLY A STRAIGHT FRAU!

Hayden Rorke and Justus Addiss lived in Toluca Lake, Los Angeles which going back far as 1930's or earlier was a community of Hollywood/entertainment elite. There is no way the two men lived together openly and no one putting two and two together. But again "Dr. Bellows" was not one of the names commonly bandied about as gay actors of Hollywood.

If someone wasn't a romantic lead in Hollywood, most folks didn't care who you slept with. But if you're supposed to be romancing a pretty ingenue or a top female star on screen, studios cared to keep up the fantasies of the ticket buying audience that they'd have a chance to be fucked by that actor as well.

Julie Andrews who is in many Roddy McDowall house party films strikes on as sort of frau that was confidante and friend to many gays.

Coming from theatre background where gays long were not treated harshly say as compared to Hollywood, Roddy or anyone else being gay doesn't strike one as something that would have repulsed Ms. Andrews. She brought her daughter to many of those beach house parties which is saying something.

R376

Well that's it isn't it? Prime reason one supposes Tom/Tammy Cruise has remained locked in that closet (if one believes rumors).

Times may have changed with inclusion, equality and so on but common wisdom then and still now is Hollywood is about creating fantasies. One of them is a leading man that will get women hot and bothered. Suits just don't believe an out and known gay man will have that effect, so there you are.

Matt Bomer has been the next big thing for some time now, but just hasn't been offered sort of roles that would cement his status as major dramatic heart throb actor.

For similar reasons you won't see an out proud gay as James Bond or any other serious action lead role either.

With international market more and more important to bottom line, Hollywood major films just won't go there either. Again world is slowly moving to inclusion and equality, but not fast enough that Hollywood would consider an out gay actor as bankable to worldwide audience.

R373

What's My Line paid quite good money (for the time) to panelists and mystery guests.

From Wiki:

"Unknown to the public, mystery guests were paid $500 (equal to $5,631 in 2021[40]) as an appearance fee, whether they won or lost the game. This was in addition to the maximum $50 (equal to $563 in 2021[40]) game winnings, which guests sometimes donated to charity. Guest panelists were paid $750 (equal to $8,447 in 2021[40]) as an appearance fee. The regular panelists were under contract and were paid "much more," according to Fates.[41] Bennett Cerf explained that when he became a permanent member of the program, he was paid $300 (equal to $3,379 in 2021[40]) per week, and he told Robbin Hawkins in their interview that by the end of the series, the panelists were being paid "scandalous amounts of money."[42][43]"

For actors who already were used to appearing before camera game shows of all sorts provided a nice tidy sum for comparatively little work. Joan Fontaine and many film stars (or actors if you will) made numerous appearances on What's My Line, especially after studio system ended leaving many scrounging about for any sort of work.

List of mystery guests on What's My Line reads like a Who's Who of both old and new Hollywood.

R375, from Hayden Rorke's wiki page:

[quote]Eden also wrote in her 2011 biography Jeannie Out of the Bottle that Rorke was "unashamedly gay," and that he lived with his partner, television director Justus Addiss (of Mister Ed, among others),[7] for many years in Studio City, along with their menagerie of dogs, until Addiss' death on October 26, 1979. The couple would often invite the cast over for parties.[2]

Apparently, everyone in the know knew.

I'm guessing that most of the guests at Roddy's parties were probably thrilled to discuss any gay gossip about and with mutual friends because it was titillating and made them feel more....well, sort of bohemian and with it.

That list of Mystery Guests at r380 must include stars from the few missing years from the early 1950s of episodes that have been lost. One name I immediately noticed, Guy Madison, is not on a program that's available for viewing.

The greatest absence was Marilyn Monroe who never appeared on the show though Bennett Cerf would often guess her name in the hope she would be there when he unmasked. Also, rather, mysteriously, Mary Martin never appeared on the show, which was odd considering all her time spent in the NY legitimate theatre.

R383, Brando and Monroe were two of the hottest names in the business in the '50s, but neither ever made an appearance.

Someone who dated Sal Mineo wrote of how disapproving Roddy McDowall was of the pairing. McDowall sounded like a total snob.

[Quote] Julie Andrews who is in many Roddy McDowall house party films strikes on as sort of frau that was confidante and friend to many gays. Coming from theatre background where gays long were not treated harshly say as compared to Hollywood, Roddy or anyone else being gay doesn't strike one as something that would have repulsed Ms. Andrews. She brought her daughter to many of those beach house parties which is saying something.

Surely you jest?

"I'm guessing that most of the guests at Roddy's parties were probably thrilled to discuss any gay gossip about and with mutual friends because it was titillating and made them feel more....well, sort of bohemian and with it."

Then one firmly believes you guessed wrong,

Only a handful of confirmed (at least by now) gays of Hollywood seemed to attend Roddy's parties. Besides host there was Sal Mineo, Rock Hudson, Tony Perkins, Tab Hunter and perhaps a few others. Not enough to warrant entire party revolving around conversations dishing dirt on gay "T".

At both is dinner and beach house parties Roddy McDowall liked to mix things up. Charles Heston, Vincent Price, Doris Roberts.. you never knew who was going to be there. As such one strongly suspects unless entirely sure of guest list gay actors were rather circumspect. Some may have arrived with current lover or boy de jour (lord knows Roddy always seemed to have one or two in his home films) but strongly doubt there was much public displays of affection or whatever.

There were other private parties that Rock Hudson, Tab Hunter and other gays of Hollywood/entertainment world attended. Those boys only parties were likely where "girls" let their hair down so to speak.

Then as now many gays entertained at home (Paul Lynde was a great cook apparently and loved throwing dinner parties), an in that more intimate setting surrounded by people they could trust it was more likely dirt was spilled.

It was like that for non famous gays as well. We've had several threads on DL about "old" photos of gays from 1940's, 1950's and even 1960's at various house parties or whatever. Homosexuality was still a crime back then in most states. This and even mention one was "caught" attending a party where guests were mostly or all gay men could get a guy fired from his job.

Roddy's parties seemed to be more about people getting together. By all accounts far as beach house parties were concerned food (what there was of it) wasn't that good.

R35, he hit the wall AND caught the AIDS. Double whammy!

When Paul Lynde got to throwing... it was murder.

(^.^) assuming any cares a fig now.

Kirk Douglas Lauren Bacall Paul Newman Lee Remick Ben Gazzara Janice Rule George Axelrod Adolph Green Betty Comden Phyllis Newman at Roddy McDowall's home on Malibu 1965.

Labor Day Sunday 1965 Malibu Lee Remick Lizabeth Scott Tony Franciosa Phyllis Newman Hayley Mills

You can use commas, ya know.

This short on those beach parties at Roddy's put things in perspective. With the collapse of the Hollywood system, the stars gathered at these parties to, not only enjoy the sand and surf, but to bounce off ideas and network.

It really cannot be understated how devastating it was for actors, especially those who long came up through it, was end of studio system.

The common situation today of actors setting up their own production companies wasn't unheard of (Marilyn Monroe did so), but many of the old school like Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, etc.. didn't bother or see reason for doing so.

Suddenly thrown to the wolves as it were to find for themselves the once despised (by some actors at least) medium of television became a lifesaver. From about late 1950's well into 1980's television programming of all sorts was filled with actors from golden age of Hollywood days.

Others who either came from or learned the craft went back or onto doing legitimate theatre (musicals or plays).

Complicating matters was content coming out of Hollywood in 1960's onto 1970's was different than prior offerings. Films were locked in a battle with television to get butts in seats. As more and more homes owned sets people remained home. You had to give them reasons to get out and see films. Hollywood content became more and more edgier as part of that effort.

None of this touches fact that by 1960's a new type of actor was becoming popular in films; Robert Redford, Dustin Hoffman, Karen Black (even with her wonky eyes), were what younger film audiences wanted.

Film of parties one wants to see where those given by George Cukor, but suspect none were taken, and if they were long since destroyed.

George Cukor's gay parties are stuff of legend. Everyone from "out" to closeted gays and lesbians, to a various assortment of young gay for pay studs willing to do "anything" for that first break.

What was new about Robert Redford?

For younger gays wondering about what things were like, suggest reading John Rechy s "City of the Night", a book that explores the seedy side of LA's gay scene including hustling. Clients of those working boys included who you might expect.

If one believes rumors, Aldo Ray let George Cukor have his wicked way with him in order to get on in Hollywood.

Alan Carr also gave wild all male (gay) parties. Basically more of same one found at Cukor's; lots of young men swimming or otherwise going around without trunks and hooking up.

I don't think Karen Black was was audiences wanted, but directors seemed to like her. She was perfectly fine, but in the 70s the biggest women box-office stars were Barbra Streisand and Jane Fonda. Not many others were considered top box-office. The year Glenda Jackson won for "A Touch of Class" (undeservedly, as Tatum O'Neal should have won for Best Actress, rather, than Supporting), there were stories about not many films roles for women. Other ladies getting good roles then were Ellen Burstyn, Goldie Hawn (especially towards the latter '70s, Faye Dunaway, Glenda Jackson, and some others. Sally Field at the very end of the 70s into the 80s.

".. no matter how hard they try, real gays can't get it up for women, you're not as gay as you think you are"

Oh really?

Wonderful. We're now going to decide who's a "real" gay and who's not?

This is like the 4th grade lunch table.

George Cukor's infamous Sunday late afternoon / evening parties would have his usual coterie of friends, gay and straight, like Somerset Maugham, Noël Coward, George Hoyningen-Huene, Cecil Beaton, Alan Ladd, Tallulah Bankhead, Katharine Hepburn, Vivien Leigh, and young studs like Forrest Tucker and Aldo Ray swimming laps in the nude.

Is Katy Hepburn included among the gays or the straights?

George Cukor's rule about those infamous Sunday gay man pool parties was no sex took place on his premises. If people made arrangements to hook-up elsewhere that was their own affair. Anyone violating this rule was asked to leave not not invited again.

Very wise of George Cukor given homosexuality was still illegal, and scandal of his place being raided by LE catching gay men in flagrante delicto would be too much.

John Travolta apparently attended many of Allan Carr's male only parties, and scored.

I think this is the first time one of Perkins' sons talk about his "queerness" (at the 6:18 mark).

Great interview.

One wonders if either of the Perkins boys will sit down and write a book with all the details.

It's never good taste to air a family's dirty linen in public, but since Tony Perkins was a public figure some bets should be off.

One thinks they will do nothing of the kind.

Why was Perkins' sexuality a vital edge? Was Ed Gein (sp?) homosexual?

Tagging onto what was said above, Tony Perkins like Elizabeth Montgomery did television commercials shown only outside of USA.

Again for comparatively very little work actors like TP would have made nice sum.

Once studio system was over actors often turned to what they could to bring in money.

The flip is that if they were in demand, they could name their price. They couldn't do that under the studio system.

TP did do a commercial for US release, a 1990 bit for Oatmeal Crisp cereal of all things.

Again we know TP would be dead in about two years. Perkins contracted the AIDS virus around the time of Psycho III (1986) and kept the illness secret for six years until his death so he could keep working and not bother his wife, family and friends.

One wonders if he was taking on all work God sent his way in order to leave his wife and family provided for if things came to the worse. TP would have known sooner or later if things progressed his appearance would give game away. He'd always been tall, slim bordering on gaunt, but still

Contracted or was diagnosed?

R413

Tony Perkins was a deeply emotionally troubled or if you will conflicted man.

Leaving aside the sexual abuse by his mother, there was the whole gay thing he spent his life trying to either fight or reconcile himself to facing.

They do say heart of good acting is not to stray too far from what one is; and Tony Perkins excelled at playing characters with various emotional faults.

Actors often have to dig deep down to find this or that character. When it came to emotionally odd characters Tony Perkins didn't have far to dig.

On some levels Norman Bates relationship with his mother is same sort of twisted one good number of gay men have with theirs. They love the woman but also hate her for what she's done (making them queer).

That's all well and good but I bristle at the suggestion that Norman Bates needed to be played by a gay man.

""Wen Tony heard about Brad Davis, I'm sure he was concerned," Ms. Berenson said. "I knew Brad well. We were in acting school together. It broke my heart that he wasn't able to share it, this poor guy, and maybe he was right. Maybe they wouldn't have given him work."

Mr. Perkins was tested for AIDS after an article in The Enquirer, a tabloid newspaper, said he was HIV positive. Ms. Berenson said her husband had not been tested for AIDS but had been given a series of blood tests in Los Angeles for a palsy on the side of his face. Ms. Berenson said she assumed that someone had tested her husband's blood for the virus and leaked the results to the tabloid. After the story appeared, he was tested and found to be HIV positive."

More..

"During the filming of Psycho IV: The Beginning, Perkins was undergoing treatment for facial palsy. Mr. Perkins was tested for AIDS after an article in National Enquirer, a tabloid newspaper, said he was HIV positive. Ms. Berenson said her husband had not been tested for AIDS but had been given a series of blood tests in Los Angeles for the palsy on the side of his face. Ms. Berenson said she assumed that someone had tested her husband's blood for the virus and leaked the results to the tabloid."

[Quote] Mr. Perkins was tested for AIDS after an article in The Enquirer, a tabloid newspaper, said he was HIV positive. Ms. Berenson said her husband had not been tested for AIDS but had been given a series of blood tests in Los Angeles for a palsy on the side of his face. Ms. Berenson said she assumed that someone had tested her husband's blood for the virus and leaked the results to the tabloid. After the story appeared, he was tested and found to be HIV positive."

I smell bullshit. Tony was probably tested, told he was HIV Positive but he kept it from his wife. The informaiton was leaked and then Tony took another test for the benefit of his wife, after which he pretended he got the result for the first time.

Going by above R417 we know when TP was diagnosed, when he was infected is another matter.

I don't think "Psycho" was limiting to Perkins. Perkins was limited, that's all.

[Quote] "I was devastated; I couldn't believe it," she said. "And then I immediately thought, what about me? What about my children? I got tested. I got tested four times in the last two years. And I'm fine. And I don't understand, I don't understand any of this. I don't understand this disease at all."

I wonder if she truly meant that ("I don't understand.").

R422 True.

I think Tony had already known about it before the NE's story.

R393

Guy with his back mostly always towards camera in red/white striped shorts was Roddy's long time BF Ed Rosenthal,

R394 Asking for punctuation and grammar on DL is like crying in the wilderness.

FDA licensed first HIV test in 1985. Certain countries in Europe had testing sooner (Nureyev tested positive in 1984, but that was France).

Psycho IV: The Beginning filmed from June 4 to July 1, 1990. Could TP have been tested previously? Possibly, but unless you violent haters have something more than your rage to go on, am willing to give TP benefit of the doubt.

Tony Perkins character changed moment he got the bad news. Find it hard to believe had he known previously that would not have changed.

R383

Episode #191 of What's My Line is indeed missing. It was from January 24, 1954, and mystery guests were: #1 Guy Madison, #2 Dean Martin & Jerry Lewis.

Only a small clip of this episode remains, rest only God knows where.

[Quote] unless you violent haters have something more than your rage to go on

Mary!

R396, or, for the marginally talented, you went to Europe to do low budget sword and sandal epics, spaghetti westerns, or "art films."

Don't knock Spaghetti Westerns...

Equally not all sword and sandal epics were awful.

El Cid, Hercules Unchained, Ben-Hur, Jason And The Argonauts, Spartacus, The Ten Commandments and The Robe have come to be appreciated. If nothing else most of them kept Charlton Heston's butter stuck to his bread.

As for art films 1960's and 1970's were a mixed bag.

Marlon Brando is likely remember by many for Last Tango in Paris than anything else. At least the film also featured the impossibly handsome Massimo Girotti. Filmed in USA John Cassavetes gave us "A Woman Under the Influence" which one believes fits under "art film" category.

R435, I was referring specifically to the peplum films and the like, not the big budgeted Hollywood produced epics.

R436, as for "art films" (in quotes) I meant NUDIES!

Tony Richardson, Brad Davis and Tony Perkins formed a trifecta that began to force Hollywood to deal better with those of its own who were HIV+.

Brad Davis and Tony Richardson died in 1991, and Tony Perkins a year later, all in their way went though extraordinary lengths to put a veil of secrecy over their infection and the related illnesses that eventually took their lives. They had no choice, especially after seeing how Rock Hudson was treated in his last days and after death.

'After Midnight: The Life and Death of Brad Davis' was published after Brad Davis's death, but it shone a spotlight on some uncomfortable facts Hollywood would not rather have faced.

I’m surprised Tab didn’t try to get on a soap opera.

R439

You'd think one of the evening soaps like Dynasty or Dallas would have offered something to Tab Hunter. Then again there were only so may "also starring" roles available and far too many old Hollywood actors needing work.

Querelle -This looks interesting!

It's a little surprising in light of big messes like Helmut Berger getting a shot, but Tab did well enough financially, so maybe he had little interest in kissing ass for a comeback.

R385

In his prime Sal Mineo was hot Italian rough trade with a twinge of sweet youth. Sort that Gore Vidal and countless other gay men flocked to south of Italy to partake.

Sal Mineo was likely too rough around the edges for Roddy McDowall if he disapproved of the former.

Was there no one from that period that studios didn't try to turn into a recording heart throb.

No. Roddy was friends with Sal. Roddy disapproved of Sal's boyfriend, who was less closeted than Roddy and his ilk. The boyfriend was younger - in his twenties in the 1970s.

Salvatore Mineo was Sicilian ascended from goat-herders.

McDowall was an ex-Scottish prisspot.

Sal was not at you paint him. He was not rough.

Dominique Dunne was in those home movies as well . She was an adorable child

I hope that Tony found peace and happiness in next world

R445

Helmut Berger was rolled around quite a lot in his day. Besides likes of Miguel Bosé, Mick Jagger. Rudolf Nureyev (on the male side) there was Tab Hunter.

Things did not end well for chief editor of Confidential (magazine).

"On January 3, 1958, at 6:15 pm, the Rushmores met in a final attempt at a reconciliation inside the lobby of their apartment building. An argument broke out between the couple and Frances exited the lobby and hailed a taxi. Simultaneously, Howard entered the cab. As the two continued arguing, the cab driver raced to the 23rd Precinct at Third and 104th. Suddenly, the driver heard three gunshots fired inside the cab. Rushmore had shot his wife in the right side of the head and neck then put the pistol to his temple and shot himself.[92] Harrison heard about the murder-suicide when a taxicab picked him up at Idlewild Airport. The driver told Harrison that the publisher of Confidential just killed himself and his wife, momentarily confusing the unmarried Harrison.[93] Later Harrison refused to believe the suicide narrative and thought Howard Rushmore was murdered.[citation needed] He remained loyal to Rushmore even after the California trial and the Rushmores' scandalous deaths."

[quote] The idea of all gays having to be gold stars, especially during a time where homosexuality was seen as a total taboo, is ridiculous and reductive.

i hate it when things are reductive!

Wasn't that Dennis Wilson of The Beach Boys with Sal Mineo at Roddy's 1965 beach party?

I wonder whatever became of Ed Rosenthal, Roddy's hot1965 boy friend? And who was he anyway when he wasn't serving wieners in Malibu? I googled but found nothing except the home movies and another Ed Rosenthal who was a horticulturist.

I felt sorry for him when he was in MAHOGANY.

I don't. Good actors can aqcuit themselves well in bad productions if they're good enough actors.

Dennis Wilson was hot, even when he wasn't starting fires.

R459 Nobody seems to know what happened to Roddy's boyfriend Ed Rosenthal. Supposedly they were together for about a year before going separate ways. Roddy had great taste in boyfriends.

I feel sorry for the person keeping this sad ass thread bumped

R463

Person or persons know what happened to "Ed Rosenthal", they just aren't or weren't interested in spreading that bit of information about.

Close friends of late Roddy McDowall who are still living such as Angela Lansbury likely could fill in some blanks.

Along with Rock Hudson, Tab Hunter and some others Roddy McDowall being gay was one of the worst kept secrets in Hollywood. Everyone knew, and thus were likely also used to a steady flow of boyfriends or merely tricks coming and out of said gay men's lives.

If Ed was only in Roddy's life for a year...

If Vincent Price's daughter is to be believed her father was bisexual. That puts a completely different complexion on his friendship with Roddy McDowall.

When not hosting dueling dinner parties who knows what else those two stately grand queens of Hollywood got up to. The dirt they may dished between themselves must have been choice.

If DL is to be believed, the whole of the universe is a seething pit of viciousness

Why are you making that point in an Anthony Perkins thread?

[quote]In your minds go through major motion pictures released in USA or even Europe of any note between 1960 and say 2000 (latter being rather generous) and find a starring role as major dramatic lead that Tab Hunter could have pulled off.

So he could only pull off major roles up until 1959? What happened to him in 1960? I don't know about major dramatic leads (he didn't always play those when he was a big star, he was sometimes second or third lead, as in They Came To Cordura, and The Pleasure Of His Company. One role I think he would have been great in is the Redford part, Wade Lewis, in Inside Daisy Clover. Probably better than Redford (who had the part re-written to be less gay).

A lot of film stars' careers used to last 5 or at most 10 years. Often they went into TV. Though Warner Bros' TV series with Tab was bad, that wasn't his fault. Warner forced all his younger stars into TV and ruined their movie careers. Tab, Troy Donahue, Connie Stevens, etc. He wanted to build up WB TV and sacrificed these kids' careers to his burgeoning TV production unit. They were under contract and had to comply. After their series' ended, so did their stardom, for the most past. Tab bought himself out of his WB contract but it was too late.

Anyway, my point is he could have done a decent TV western, detective series, or something like that, down the line, like many other ex-movie stars -- but he did so many bad movies when his WB career was over, just to pay the bills, that he was too much of a has-been by then.

He could have been the nightclub singer in Valley of the Dolls.

[Quote] Anyway, my point is he could have done a decent TV western, detective series, or something like that, down the line, like many other ex-movie stars -- but he did so many bad movies when his WB career was over, just to pay the bills, that he was too much of a has-been by then.

I think there's more to it than that. Sal Mineo could barely get arrested on screen, so he turned to low level theatre. George Maharis was given a lifeline by Aaron Spelling after Maharis' 1967 arrest for an indecent act with a hairdresser in a public bathroom, but the series (co-starring Yvette Mimieux, after Inger Stevens died before production) didn't run.

R461 You are an idealist.

You're not an actor and you've never appeared in an American movie.

If what Mrs. Antony Perkins was going on about in that NYT interview (TP not being offered work for two years or whatever before his death), there was a simple reason for that fact; HIV nor not Tony Perkins was in his late 50's approaching 60. Very few actors of that demographic had Hollywood banging down their doors with offers.

Even in best case scenario of TP not being infected with HIV/AIDs he still wouldn't have likely landed more work. Whatever misgivings he had about playing Norman Bates were thrown by the boards when TP agreed to do series of further Psycho films. If Mr. Perkins thought he was typecast before those sequels.

Best TP could have hoped for out of Hollywood IMHO was same as many other older actors, offers of various "also starring" guest spots on television shows.

There was also of course going back to the theatre, but off top of my head cannot think of a major drama role on Broadway in 1980's or 1990's that TP could have been cast. Maybe Georges in "La Cage aux Folles"?

I've seen plenty of bad movies with good actors. Hell, look at those Star Wars prequels. Those repertory trained British actors gave fine performances. The modern types, and that includes Brits like Ewan McGregor, were at sea.

Was Sleuth still on Broadway in the 1980s?

I could picture Perkins as Henry Higgins, though he would have been more suited to Freddie.

Perkins probably could have done the Emcee in "Cabaret."

[quote] repertory trained British actors

R475 They're different from untrained low-talent American movie performers.

I don't think Perkins was low talent. Limited, but not low talent.

Young Perkins would have been great and very naked had "Equus" been written in the right time frame for him to play Alan. But he was born too soon -- playing the shrink to a very naked young Tom Hulce.

It wasn't right time, but think TP could have pulled off the Sir Laurence Olivier role of Dr. Szell in "Marathon Man". Larry Olivier largely took the part because it got buckets of money, was dying of cancer and wanted to provide for his wife and children. Sound familiar?

Perkins could have done "Whose Life Is It Anyway?" or "The Odd Couple."

R478

Do you really think so? Don't see TP has having ability to bring necessary camp to the role, at least on film. Maybe on Broadway early days would have been rough going until TP found his character, but still just don't see it working.

For one thing TP was just too tall and gangly. He would have seemed awkward and out of place not to mention stiff.

Perkins is more of a Cliff/Brian but it's not like casting stars is always about suitability, so much as "Will the public come?"

Given how close TP was to Sondheim am surprised he wasn't offered any roles on "Follies". Or maybe either a role in stage or that film version of "Little Night Music".

R482, are you sure about that? Marathon Man was released in 1976. Olivier died in 1989 and was actively making films until 1985, so...

Olivier was quite ill for the King Lear movie. Wasn't hat c. 1983?

Young Tony Perkins was extremely charming in "The Matchmaker". Delightfully so, even adorable.

The role of Robert in Company was kind of made on Perkins, but then he bowed out saying he only wanted to direct. I'm sure Sondheim would have supported his casting in ALNM (Henrik?) although I doubt he would have been easy to cast in Follies; it seemed Perkins wasn't interested at all.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Tony in On The Beach (with Gregory Peck, Ava Gardner, and Fred Astaire). I'm not that crazy about him but I think other than Psycho that was one of his best performances.

R487

Laurence Olivier was quite ill for about last 22 years of his life. Yes, he worked, and created some memorable roles.

Sal Mineo did Fortune and Men's Eyes. To say world just wasn't ready would be an understatement.

Tab was sacrificed to Confidential magazine in the 50s by his agent, Henry Willson, in exchange for the magazine killing a piece that was going to out Rock Hudson - Willson's biggest client. Instead they ran a story about Tab attending a gay party, I think it was. Though it didn't appear to have any effect on his career at that time.

Talk about rough trade....

R397, Henry Willson sacrificed two clients in exchange for that piece on Rock. Confidential ran a story in their May 1955 rag about Rory Calhoun's criminal past, including a stint in prison. In September 1955 came Tab's gay pajama party story. Neither story did much damage to their careers though.

R490 and other post on same..

Yes, Tony Perkins was involved early on with Company, but as director for play. He initially went along when things moved over to musical, to point role of "Bobby" was basically built for and or around him, but then TP just changed his mind and walked away.

In 1993 there was a one night only concert of "Company" that reunited most of OBC. Angela Lansbury was narrator and she paid tribute to three involved with OBC production who had died from HIV/AIDS; Bennett, Kert and production stage manager Fritz Holt. Not mentioned was Anthony Perkins who was offered role of Bobby, and died of HIV/AIDS related illness just year before.

Tony Perkins bolted from "Company" to direct a play IIRC. Suits needed (or wanted) a name so lucky them Dean Jones was available. Jones in turn bolted from "Company" barely after one month, understudy Larry Kert came next.

Bolt is probably too strong a word to describe Dean Jones leaving Company. Hal Prince and likely others knew the personal turmoil Jones was going through, and that the material (along with being in NYC for that matter IIRC), just hit too close to home. Story goes Hal Prince coaxed or whatever Dean Jones to give the production an opening night it and he deserved, and then soon as possible DJ could go. Larry Kert was told of this and knew it would be a few weeks before he went from understudy to main actor.

Dean Jones was filmed in that award winning film on making OBC recording for Company, but Larry Kert got the Tony award nomination, this even though he did not originate the character nor play opening night. Kert would go on to do the London production, so guess things worked out well all way round.

I'm not sure I buy the way Jones' exit is framed.

Hard to say if Tony Perkins could equal or beat either Dean Jones or Larry Perkins as "Bobby".

Tony had a pretty mild singing voice, didn't he?

Sadly we lost wonderful Larry Kert one year before Tony Perkins, he died in 1991 also of HIV/AIDS related illness.

In an odd twist, Larry Kert was same age (60), as Tony Perkins would be when he passed on a year later.

Ron Pullen (Kert's partner) was diagnosed same time, and late as 2011 was still with us, cannot find any further information.

As discussed in DL thread about Tom Bianchi, there really was no rhyme or reason with HIV infections then. Some died quite soon, others lived (and are still living) many decades later.

R504

Think TP could have handled role of Bobby voice wise.

Reflections on the Silver Screen, was a series of interviews on AMC.

Something is wrong with YT's dates as poster claims tapes were made in October 1992, but TP died in September of that year IIRC.

All three parts are on YT however.

[quote]Was Sleuth still on Broadway in the 1980s?

No, but DEATHTRAP was and fellow gays Robert Reed and Farley Granger both played the lead at some point. Saw Robert Reed, he was fine. John Cullum was better.

"Do you feel sorry for Anthony Perkins?!"

Can one express feelings for something that does not exist?

What remains of Anthony Perkins are incinerated ashes.

Robert Reed even got a Hirschfeld sketch for Deathtrap.

Hmm... I suspect Perkins attended a Cukor party and that's how he got to make his movie debut in the same part he'd played in stock.

Cornelius Hack was perfect role for Anthony Perkins.

TP again was playing same sort of character we would see in "Good-bye Again". A tall, handsome young, slightly shy and gangly young man.

When he wasn't doing creepy, this was what TP did best IMHO.

Mixture of both; Tony Perkins and Romy Schneider in The Trial (1962)

"Larry Perkins" should be Larry Kert.

Corrected and carry on...

I lived on Horatio Street in the far West Village throughout the 1990s on the same block as Larry Kert and his lover Ron Pullen (profiled upthread). Pullen was a very hot pocket gay back then and obviously caretaking Larry who'd only rarely appear on the street, looking very frail and clearly dying. I still remember the day the ambulance pulled up to their brownstone to take Larry's body away. Sad.

It was quite the block back then with neighbors Cherry Jones and her lover Mary the architect, Mary Testa and Jennifer Connelly and Billy Campbell, who couldn't keep their hands off each other.

Larry Kert is at 1:25 in the same Roddy McDowall Summer of '65 home video that Tony Perkins is in.

[Quote] Mary Testa and Jennifer Connelly and Billy Campbell, who couldn't keep their hands off each other.

Not a throuple I was expecting.

Tony was wise to leave Company as he probably saw that Bobby was a cipher of a role despite being the nominal lead with a great song or 2 to sing. Though maybe had he played Bobby there would have been rewrites to flesh out the character and make Bobby more engaging.

There really were no roles for Tony in either Follies or A Little Night Music. He wasn't the right age for Follies in 1970 and he just wasn't the right type for any of the leads ALNM. However, if his voice had had more timber and depth he just might have made a very interesting Sweeney Todd. Though...not really....

But Tony could have played Salieri in Amadeus or one of the men in Betrayal or a lead in Noises Off or starred many of those revivals that were being done at Circle in the Square throughout the decade.

Who was in between Larry Kert and Suzanne Pleshette after the 3 minute mark?

r520, if you mean the guy in the red polo shirt who appears with Polly Bergen that's not Larry Kert.

Maybe they could have gender flipped Baby Jane. Tony as Blaine Hudson?

Who is the older man 4:44 embracing Jane Fonda? Is it Roger Vadim?

Is that Johnnie Ray in the green jacket?

Drama on Horatio street where Larry Kert once lived.

That is fucking dreadful. Those nieces and nephews should die in a grease fire.

Any who back on track. Using info supplied by R519 Ron Pullen has two previous addresses on Horatio Street, but since has moved house out west.

Age cannot possibly be correct as Kert himself was born in 1930. If true Pullen would have been born in early 1960's and thus not much more than a very young man when he took up with Larry Kert.

Tony had a magnetic screen presence and was very alluring to women .

67 would be the right age for Pullen now.

Meet dude from AIDS at age 60

Kert died from AIDS at age 60

R524, my apologies. I think he's at 3:45 on the Aug 1965 video.

R530

Same sex marriage laws were passed in NYS to proved protections from that sort of situation. Couple shillyshallied about (not exactly wise given their ages), and one died.

Over 500 some odd posts later it still comes down to this; in his prime there were few better than Anthony Perkins.

R536 Those silent videos are spooky.

I wish those clever voice artists known as 'The Punchy Players' could provide a soundtrack.

R533

Know it was common enough back in day for young gays to be turned out by older; but still... I'm coming up with sums of about 30 year age difference, that's creepy.

Grim Reaper was busy in Hollywood during 1992, good number of actors/entertainers besides Tony Perkins succumbed to HIV/AIDS related illness.

Peter Allen, David Oliver, Richard Hunt, Bill Beyers, Keith Prentice, Amadeus August, Denholm Elliott, Larry Riley, Larry Roberts, Todd Armstrong, Robert Reed, Paul Jabara...

Global warming

The Ukraine war

Anthony Perkins' career.

What a tragic world we live in.

Tom Fuccello would die in 1993, totally shocked me as didn't have him on my gaydar at all.

Yes, that's Larry Kert in that r536 video in the striped tank top, chatting up Tammy Grimes.

But who is the pretty blonde in the yellow 2 piece bathing suit with the little kerchief on her head? Looks like Jane Powell though she seems an odd mix with that company....though, of course, she was at MGM with Roddy.

And what's the name of the guy with the BDF bravado who Natalie Wood is hanging all over throughout the video? I don't think he's an actor, probably a producer?

Amazing how those stars could be happily sated with nothing but sun, surf, hot dogs and beer (and endless cigarettes) back in those days.

R544

Have been to a few house parties like Roddy McDowall's, read light on food but heavy on booze.

Think it's a certain sort of white person (WASP?) thing. Whenever go to gatherings given by Italians, blacks, Latinos, French or even Greeks there's always tons of food and drinks. Every time someone new arrives they bring more of one or both with them as well.

Not that I don't believe you, r545, but in all those Roddy home movies there's little evidence of alcohol other than beer cans. I'm sure there's a bar or at least a bar cart but you don't see it in the films.

Yes, I feel sorry for Anthony Perkins. He was a beautiful and talented actor with range who didn't have the career he should have. He lost his father at five and had an extremely challenging relationship with his mother, who was controlling, hypercritical, touched him inappropriately, and ignored his needs by sending him to a boy's boarding school where he didn't fit in after he had been raised surrounded by older women. But at the same time, observing his passion for acting, she was responsible for getting him involved in summer stock starting at the age of 15 and she managed his finances for many years.

He was an extremely conflicted gay man who had to hide who he was and who was typecast after Psycho. It can't have been easy going from the last heavily promoted star at Paramount to doing Psycho sequels. He kept trying to improve his life and career by doing movies in Europe, writing screenplays with Stephen Sondheim, and trying to reinvent himself as a director. Many things didn't work out and it often wasn't his fault. In his mid-30s, he started intensive "conversion" therapy with a quack called Mildred Newman, whom Sondheim called "a danger to humanity" that involved sessions in which he cried when being asked to imagine having sex with a woman and electroshock therapy, which some say aged him and had other negative effects. She gave him two assignments, to have sex with a woman and to get married. He completed both. Although his marriage to Berry Berenson was not a sham marriage -- he reportedly was devoted to her and both his kids -- he never stopped being gay and pursuing men. Tragically, to contract AIDS in that era was a death sentence for most. Added to the shock of dying, he must have been horribly ashamed to have his sexual orientation revealed that way.

Although privately bitter at times, and who could blame him, publicly he usually attempted to put a good face on things. I respect him for that.

September 12 marks the 30th anniversary of his death. Had he lived he would have turned 90 in April.

Oh, please. Perkins had his house in the Hollywood Hills, a vacation home on Cape Cod and he was able to survive financially when he didn't work for two years. Boo Fucking Hoo.

Perkins' probelem career wise wasn't that he was gay and closeted, it was that he was effete, which made him less castable.

R548

No, Perkins was not on the street when died. He had the opportunity to make cheesy perfume ads in Japan and other choice assignments. His family was not left destitute. It doesn't mean his life wasn't sad.

If his penis made to Barry and Victoria's pussies and climaxed, he must have been bisexual.

R549

I disagree. He was effective in a number of roles. Even in the many mediocre movies in which he appeared after Psycho, even in small roles, he usually added something that elevated the movie.

I'm wrong. There's evidence of big jugs of white wine drunk from small paper cups at Roddy's, as well as Busch beer.

R551

Perkins displayed zero romantic or sexual interest in women until "conversion" therapy, when at the urging of his therapist, he had sex at the age of 39. And he always had had plenty of opportunities as a beautiful, charming man who met women everywhere. Many of his costars were interested in him and he had young women friends who were infatuated with him. I don't know the clinical definition of bisexuality but to me, having sex with two women (one for only four days) versus sex with hundreds (if not more) men over one's lifetime does not make one bisexual.

In addition, most of his friends did not consider him to be bi. They were shocked when he got married and never stopped being shocked. One friend who knew him when they were both young said he used to come over to her house and cry on her shoulder about his problems with Tab Hunter. Sometimes he would stay over and they would sleep in the same bed. She was very beautiful, but she said it was completely chaste because when you have a friend who's gay "it's in the air."

R544

The stereotype of WASPs is that they don't care about great food, they drink. As they prize slenderness, eating in excess is not a priority.

R9

Or maybe he simply didn't feel comfortable being on camera in a nonprofessional context. He was known to be a shy and self-conscious man in social gatherings. He is smiling when he says "Fuck You."

R8

He gave a number of memorable performances. They've been overlooked because of Psycho. And he should have had more meaty roles.

There's no should about it. You either book the role or you don't. If offers aren't coming in, you haven't maintained your status. Perkins found a spin on the Juvenile Lead with "Psycho" but beyond that, he didn't continue to develop. Old Twink isn't really a casting type.

I find those Roddy home movies irrepressibly sad. All those beautiful carefree people are well into their 80s and 90s now........or more likely dead and gone. Many completely forgotten.

There's even something about the lack of sound that gives them a more wistful quality like a silent movie. We have to use our imaginations more in viewing them. I wonder if Roddy purposely didn't include sound?

Home movie cameras in that era didn't record sound.

R2

I've seen all of those except for Catch-22 and Is Paris Burning? They're all worth watching for Perkins, if not for more, although I find the premise of Lovin' Molly hard to believe. Other performances of his that I've enjoyed include Friendly Persuasion, Fear Strikes Out, The Matchmaker, Desire Under the Elms, Phaedra, The Lonely Man, Tin Star, This Angry Age, Les Misérables, and Evening Primrose. One of his very best performances is in Goodbye Again, for which he won the best actor award at Cannes.

The Fool Killer is a film I watched only because Perkins is in it but he does create a memorable if cryptic character. Quelqu'un derrière la porte (Someone behind the door) has a ridiculous plot but Perkins is good in it.

I'd kill for a time machine that would take me back so I could watch him on stage in Tea and Sympathy and Look Homeward, Angel. I would have enjoyed seeing him in the musical Greenwillow, even though it wasn't a success. Although he didn't have the strongest voice, he could be very expressive. His version of Never Shall I Marry on the original cast recording made in 1960 when he was 28 is better than his 1980s version for television, which someone posted. And although I think he still was handsome, he was in his 50s and too old to be singing that song in the costume of the character; it's more of a young person's song. He made many pleasurable jazzy recordings, mainly in the 1950s, some in French. He had an excellent French accent and performed his role in Une ravissante idiote entirely in French (horrible film, only for Perkins completists.)

As for the charge that his roles don't reflect much variety, people don't realize that post-Psycho, when Perkins was hired the role often would be revised to capitalize on his creepy Norman Bates persona. I read that happened with Mahogany.

R532

He remains very alluring to women. I've seen sexy images of him posted to "LadyBoner" sites and I follow a couple of Twitter accounts created by women that are dedicated to him.

[quote]There's even something about the lack of sound that gives them a more wistful quality like a silent movie.

They are silent movies, Blanche.

R11

He was a complex man, without question. He was known for playing mind games with some people, being catty, and enjoying other people's discomfort. Whether this was an innate part of his personality, an assertion of his personality after being raised by a controlling mother, some by-reaction of being a cautious, closeted gay man, bitterness caused by career disappointments, or something else -- who knows?

As much as I adore Tony Perkins, there are aspects of his sex life about which I could have happily remained ignorant (Thank you, Charles Winecoff). Starting I think in middle age, he became a steady drug user. He was arrested abroad twice for drugs, mainly for marijuana, which sounds laughable today, but he also took LSD, poppers, and probably a lot of other stuff.

But he also was known for being extraordinarily kind to people and creating nice surprises for them. For example, he arranged for a young film score composer to stay in a Paris apartment for a couple of weeks for free and gave him the airline ticket. One summer, when he was at his home on Cape Cod, he read in the local paper a story about a girl who was visiting from Ireland as part of an exchange program and invited her for an afternoon out on his boat. When he asked Helen Merrill, the German woman with whom he'd been friends and roommates for 22 years to move out of his townhouse because his live-in boyfriend Grover Dale wanted to use the space, he gave her something like $150,000. An older, middle-aged woman on her own who had been struggling financially, she was able to start over as a literary and theatrical agent and was very successful. In the 1950s, while still a college student, Perkins had approached her and asked if he could rent a room from her. She was known for providing cheap room and board as well as emotional support for aspiring actors. He also paid for her to have her nose fixed on his own initiative. She had broken her nose back when she lived in Germany and had an appearance that many found alarming. When Hitchcock unexpectedly sent Perkins a bonus after the huge success of Psycho, he gave her the money. Thereafter, they referred to her "Hitchcock Nose."

I don't find the home movies sad. Nor are they especially entertaining. I wonder if Natalie was informed when Kirk Douglas would be there.

Wasn't he quite fucked up while making that Ken Russell movie with Kathleen Turner?

150k in what, the late 1960s or 1970s?

If Merrill was able to provide room and board to others, why did she end up in Perkins' townhouse?

Kathleen Turner:

I have always thought Crimes of Passion was a very powerful film - some of my best work I think. Not an easy job though. Antony Perkins I can say because it was common knowledge on set was doing god knows what drugs and Ken Russell at that time was still drinking heavily. So that created difficulties that didn't need to have been there. I walked into Ken's trailer at 6 o'clock in the morning and was asked if I wanted a glass of wine. No thank you, Ken.

R569

Perkins did secure Russell's permission beforehand, but apparently, he did poppers before every single scene. I haven't made up my mind about his performance; usually, I think it's way over the top. Some love it.

R235

Hunter greatly respected Tony Perkins's acting experience, which included summer stock starting at the age of 15, drama activities in high school and college, and of course, his work on Broadway as the lead of Tea and Sympathy, a role he took over after his childhood friend John Kerr left the production to do the movie. Everyone said Perkins brought a depth to the boy that Kerr hadn't.

Hunter, meanwhile, dropped out of high school to join the Coast Guard and was kicked out a year later for being underage. He took various jobs to support himself and his mother. I believe he took acting classes or at least had an acting coach but he had nothing like his boyfriend's experience and he knew it.

I read that Perkins thought Bobby would be difficult to play because of a lack of character definition and that he also was concerned that many people read Bobby as gay, and he didn't want to be associated with that kind of role at that point in his life. He also was offered an opportunity to direct a production. I've also read Dean Jones may have been wary because of Bobby's perceived gayness, although he apparently was an emotional wreck anyway because he was in the middle of a divorce and that was the main reason he left the show.

He did play a gay character (B.Z. in "Play It As It Lays") around the same time.

R37

No, you read that Perkins claimed she came on to him when they co-starred in Goodbye Again. But according to the host on Turner Classic Movies, he later retracted that statement. According to Bergman, she was very uncomfortable kissing actors she's just met, which had happened when she had a kissing scene on her first day of shooting Gaslight. So she asked Perkins if they could practice beforehand.

R23

I saw Perkins in Romantic Comedy. He was sexy.

R548, hates people who are in a higher station in life. Or is a bitter troll

Oh, yes. I'm bitter because Anthony Perkins was entitled. Whose career should Anthony Perkins have had? Who was taking "his" roles?

You're doing a brilliant imitation of bitterness, sweetie.

As opposed to Sunny Perkins...

R574

Stephen Sondheim announced Perkins's association with Company sometime in the mid- to late '60s. Its first production was in 1970 when Perkins was 38. He had left sometime before then. He had sex for the first time with a woman in 1971 when he was 39. Play It As It Lays came out in 1972. Some people have interpreted his role as B.Z. as a renunciation of being gay. The character's fate is not a happy one. Perkins married in 1973, when he was 41.

Did Larry Kert and Perkins have the same "houseboy"? I recall reading that. I've never read a Kert book (is there one?) so it must have been from a Perkins biography.

Although I was not a client of Helen Merrill, a few of my friends were in the early 1980s and so I spent some social time with her at opening night parties and such. She was a fiercely intelligent woman and highly opinionated about everything and not shy about expressing herself.

It was a time in NY theater when not a lot of original American plays or musicals were being produced on Broadway, so Helen's power as an agent was mostly felt in the thriving off-Broadway scene of those relatively new theater companies like Manhattan Theatre Club, Playwrights Horizons, the WPA and a few others, where she would intimidate their producers with packages of playwright, director and all the designers, all her clients. But she had incredibly good taste in talent so I think they were always happy to comply and hire everyone.

She was indeed rather homely, very butch and tough looking, always puffing away at Her Camels. I never heard her discuss Tony Perkins, though with her frankness, I'm sure she did among closer associates. I found her terrifying, though how I wished she was my agent.

R28

This is my favorite photo of Tab and Tony. I think Hunter was teaching Perkins how to waterski. He also taught Perkins how to drive, and possibly, how to ride a horse. www.pinterest.com/pin/266275396710161173/

R585

Sorry that the link isn't working. I tried to post it several times but got an error message. I removed the start of the link but something happened.

R587 A hopeless mismatch.

Baby-jawline and Adonis-jawline.

[Quote] A hopeless mismatch. Baby-jawline and Adonis-jawline.

A total mismatch.

A man with an ill-proportioned body and a man with a perfect body.

Tony was better matched with Grover Dale.

"Psycho" is one of Hitchcock's best-acted movies: Perkins and Leigh brilliantly bring out so much in their roles, and their scenes together create the sad and scary mood that is sustained through the rest of the film.

If Tab were a bottom, he'd probably be dead of AIDS, like his ex lovers, Tony Perkins and Rudy Nureyev. AIDS was not anyone's comeuppance.

[quote] If Tab were a bottom, he'd probably be dead of AIDS

That's assuming that he did anal sex. We don't know that.

Kris is close to Harvey Levin.

TMZ is literally the Kardashians mouthpiece.

R598 here, Sorry, wrong thread!!

As handsome as Tony was (and he was in his youth), he must have been intimidated by Tab's out of this world looks. And Tab was undoubtedly intimidated by Tony's acting talents, especially onstage, as well as his intelligence.

That would be a doomed relationship even if it was happening in today's more liberal times.

Tony was turned on by Grover Dale's looks but not intimidated by them. And Grover didn't give a fuck about Tony's acting abilities or his intelligence.

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